L-O-V-E

My heart is weary tonight brethren. I really am at a loss for why we have such a delighted attitude toward internecine conflict in Reformedom. Troll the "reformed" or "puritan" blogs out there and you will find a world of exclusivity filled with hateful invective for anyone who disagrees. Do a google search on "Federal Vision" or "New Perspectives" and you will find the most hateful things said by Christians against other Christians. Heresy! Heterodoxy! Heretic! Another Gospel! Man, if this is what we say about those who are of our own tradition, it makes me shudder to think of what one is willing to do to an Arminian or an Anglo-Catholic. This should not be.

Throughout history Christians have been marked out by worldly authorities for one peculiar trait that drives them mad with rage...love. Yet, we live in a time of heightened rhetoric when people are filled with that same type of rage...toward their brethren. Its sick.

I am hereby declaring that I'm Post-Reformed. I'm serious.

I'm tired of the rhetoric. Tired of the accusations of being "sacerdotal", "Romanist", "Federal Visionist", whatever. No one listens to your answers anyway. And those who are asking are irrelevant. In fact, we are irrelevant. Just call me "Christian", a fine name first applied to our people at Antioch in Acts 11. The Reformed world, while offering a wonderful repository of historical theology has become so tossed from its moorings that it can't even see itself in the mirror anymore in its bankruptcy. We, like some powerful ancient barbarian people, were once a great tribe. Now we are nobody. Drunk and screaming at one another on the reservation we have allowed ourselves to be placed on.

I'm leaving to join the wider church. My sympathies will always lie with with the great Genevan and his true progeny but its time to engage the broader Christian culture and the unredeemed world of men beyond that. Time is too short to fight silly battles. There is a creation that needs to be subdued for Christ.

Comments

[rick g.]

don't you get it man? time stopped in 16th century!

i need a beer and good cigar.

wake up!

post reformed, i like that,
would make a nice Tee Shirt.

[Garrett]

A beer and a good cigar would solve alot of these problems. We need to quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry...with a beer and a good cigar.

[Brother Quotidian]

Post-reformed? Interesting. I may use it myself. May I? Is it trademarked by any chance?

The term I have usually used instead is "barely Reformed," deployed in conscious antithesis to "truly Reformed."

I just now stumbled across this blog at what seems to be a key hinge in your pilgrimage. Ours are remotely similar (at first examination) -- departing a cramped, ingrown, and monomaniacal theological ghetto for "the wider church." I'm going to be interested to learn what you think that is.

Meanwhile, blessings on your trek. I am going to begin praying for you. We (e.g. the barely reformed, the post-reformed, the atavists of a catholic Western Christianity) need every one of you we can find.

[Garrett]

Interesting Bro. We almost chose St. Athanasius as our church name but it seemed a little obscure for a self-conciously "community" oriented church in Los Angeles. Yes, I have been rounding a large bend for several years now. I can see just a bit down the next lane now. Thank you for the prayers.

Re: "Postreformed" has no trademark so please feel free to use it but just share any profits you generate.

[Brother Quotidian]

No one around here knows who St. Athanasius is, nor how to spell his name, nor even how to pronouce it. His name on our parish is emblematic of two things: (1) the outrageous ignorance of God's people in the remnants of an ostensibly Christian culture; imagine yellow-dog Democrats who have never heard of FDR and you get my drift And, (2) our conviction that the challenges facing us in this time of history are very similar to the ones Athanasius faced. He is for us an inspiration and source of moxey. God grant we may do as well as he did.

I also note you're a jarhead. Me too. A Hollywood Marine.

BQ

[Garrett]

Bro,

I went thru MCRD SD back in '85. You?

[Brother Quotidian]

"I went thru MCRD SD back in '85. You?"

MCRD SD in the fall of '68. Detained there for a month awaiting a courts-martial (not for moi; I was a witness). Then off to Pendleton, for ITR and Cooks and Bakers School. Oh, yes, I was one of the shifty-eyed enlisted swine.

If you're interested in how the United States Marine Corps eventually contributed to my becoming an Anglican priest, you can read all about it here:

http://brotherquotidian.blogspot.com/2004/06/unity-of-raked-leaves-marching-platoon.html

It's an entry at a blog that turned out to be a bridge too far at the time I launched it. Perhaps I'll resurrect it later.

Later this evening, I'll offer some thoughts on the question you posed about St. Gregory's eclectic spirituality.

And,yes, Anglican chants are Exceedly Cool to the Max. I've gotten some men in the choir of a PCA congregation (their pastor is an old seminary bud) to using Anglican chants, and their choir director has designs on the whole congregation routinely chanting. They're even making their congregational prayers in collect form now! Maybe there's hope?

BQ

[Garrett]

Interesting journey. where I'm headed liturgy doesn't give willies it just gets blank stares. But it is very, very counter-cultural.

[Anonymous]

As a potential parishoner in your Santa Clarita church, I'd like to ask you to flesh out what "post-reformed" means. I understand you intend it as a widening, not a narrowing, of definitions, but it's still ill-defined at this moment.

[Garrett]

Hi Anonymous,

I see the Reformed movement as having its genus in the broader church up through the Reformation but crystallizing around the thought of John Calvin and his continental reformed contemporaries. I believe there was a generally productive trajectory through the continental Reformed churches (Dutch, German, Swiss, French) into the early 20th Century. The Anglo-American reformed churches always struggled with a Puritanism that threatened to take it over the rails.

Some examples of this “over the rails” is a disengaged spirituality that separated the church from beauty and tradition and disengaged the church from culture. I think this made, particularly the American Reformed churches, vulnerable to revivalistic tendencies that eventually turned them into baptistic churches in practice and appearance. The Reformation wasn’t about dumping everything “Roman Catholic” but carefully weighing out what was a good and biblical practice without over-reacting.

Now, how does this relate to your question? Well, American Reformedom, which has spun itself far from its moorings, has gotten itself into a reactionary cul-de-sac and is acting like a dying cornered wildcat. The continental (and even 16th-19th Anglo/ American Reformedom) always had allot of variety on a number of issues. I’m not talking about liberalism or heterodoxy either. It was a large, powerful and mature movement and force in culture. Different baptismal views were tolerated. Different speculations and formulations of pre-fall decrees were accepted. Somewhere along the way we have become intolerant, unable to listen and mean. We are (and perhaps already have) become irrelevant to the broader Christian church (worldwide and national) and certainly have become irrelevant in the culture itself.

Let me say that I affirm all the primary tenets that conservative Reformed folk fret about (justification by faith, imputation of the righteousness of Christ, etc., etc.) but I will not, however, condemn my brethren who want to recast these doctrines in different ways. I will listen to them carefully and weigh out what they are saying. We are suppposed to be about Reformed and always reforming. Reformedom is not able to handle such nuancing anymore. An example of this would be the intolerance that someone like John Frame faced at Westminster Seminary, CA. When Frame isn’t acceptable anymore the bells are tolling for the funeral.

Finally, I don’t want to spend my ministry and life being squandered on some sectarian identity. The Nicene Creed is a fine demarcation line for fellowship for me. As a “Post-Reformed” man I guess I would say that I want to invert what has become the identity markers for conservative American Reformed folk and that is “let’s define the circle of orthodoxy really small” which means our peculiar interpretation of the Westminster Confession of Faith. That’s fine for officers in your local body but beyond that I want make as many allies as possible. So I will wrap up this rather long response by saying that Satan is our enemy not our Christian brethren. Hope that helps.

[Garrett]

Anonymous:

BTW, feel free to contact me off-line:

pastor@saintandrewscc.net

[Geoff]

How about "Verily Reformed"? It adds that archaic flavor we liturgical types crave.

[Garrett]

Geoff,

Sounds like buckle shoes and canes. : )

[Boneman]

G,

My problem with being "post-Reformed" is that we have let pseudo-Calvinsits with Baptistic psychological moorings hijack our true identity and proud tradition. It is kind of like saying that we can't claim to be "catholic" because of Romanist distortions.

Look, a rose by any other name is still a rose, bro. You can call yourself a "boat" and you're still Reformed. It isn't how you identify yourself, it is how you are identified that matters - and you ARE Reformed.

My suggestion is that you claim to be exactly what you are - a Reformed Catholic. That says everything you want it to say and will be sure to distinguish you from the revivalistic nuttiness you want nothing to do with.

[Garrett]

Boney,

Are you trying to argue with me about not arguing with arguers?

[Geoff]

Bones,

I told Garrett offline that reclaiming the name is my preference.

"Boat" is not a bad idea for a name, but it has too much of a Scientology feel. I was thinking we could call ourselves "S'mores," because who doesn't like S'mores? But if you're saying that no matter what we call ourselves, we're still reformed I guess it's just no use.

Would you say that you are arguing for the "objectivity" of reformedom?

[Garrett]

My point is that you're not going to convince any plain-wrap TR that you're Reformed. They've hi-jacked the tradition. So instead of spending allot of time on useless arguing why not just move on. Post-Reformed means you are a Reformed Christian who wants to move the dialogue outside of Reformed circles and that you want to dialogue with the wider Christian culture for whom the label "Reformed" is meaningless.

I'm at that point where I really don't care about labels any more. I'm more interested in action. What you actually do will more accuractely define who you are. You want to be Reformed (and confessional), live it.

[Garrett]

Bones,

You wrote:

"My problem with being "post-Reformed" is that we have let pseudo-Calvinsits with Baptistic psychological moorings hijack our true identity and proud tradition."

My position is kinda like this. You live in this stinky run-down town that used to be the local metropolis (before the interstate got put in). Now its just a dying dust-bin. The folks who are left (the smart and interesting kids keep leaving for college and never come back) are primarily one note samba types regarding their (rather recent) traditions. They cannot bear dissent and are trying to force out the last few families that have broader perspectives.

You have been engaged in this heated process for over a decade and suddenly realize, "This town is totally irrelevant" and its dying. You've got no obligation to hang out here any longer. In fact, the ideals that once represented your society are being discussed in a more vigorous and thoughtful manner in the big city down the interstate. Why hang around giving yourself heartburn that maybe just maybe one day you can gain the status of "well he's sort of all alright but's he's still weird and I don't like him." Who cares what they say? I'm more interested in picking up my theological convictions and going somewhere where they can be put to use.

This is an example of the kinds of stupid, unloving, and totally unproductive things that the local hicks engage in when lost motorists happen into the old dump by accident. Haw-Haw:

http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/the-latest-post/2006/3/4/pastors-cant-answer-questions-about-basic-doctrines.html

[Boneman]

Since we're doing parables - how about this?

There once was a vineyard that was very fruitful. Yea, verily, the bounty of that land was great.

And then one day some new workers came into the field to labor. In time, the fruit of that field became less bountiful and the workers began to fight among themselves about how to labor in it. Some laborers advocated leaving for another field because the soil was bad, and some said that there was only one way to cultivate the grapes and everyone must hold there trowels just so. The smallest group of laborers knew that the soil of that field was good and could thrive again regardless of how the trowels were held. They knew that the problem wasn't with the vineyard, but with the laborers themselves.

Soon one group left for another vineyard, leaving the small group of laborers with a large bunch of laborers who were now better at fighting than growing grapes. The small group said to the large group - let us work in this corner of the field to see how the harvest will be in our corner. The large fighting group begruddingly accepted their proposal. In time the harvest in that corner was much greater than the rest of the field. When the fighting group of laborers looked and saw that their harvest was not as good as the small corner - they asked why this was so. The small group responded, "They will know that you are my disciples if you love one another."

The fighting group tore their garments and repented of their fighting and trowel-holding nonsense - and now the whole field is the greatest in the land... again.

Your not post-reformed, G. You just labor in the corner instead of fighting in the middle.

[Garrett]

The field is the world.

[Garrett]

Bonepappy,

Surely you realize this is partially rhetorical? Don't get too worked up.

[Boneman]

I know it is tough being in seminary and all, but I think you should just get on with it and forget about their political wranglings and gnashing of teeth.

You know what they're about, you know what they're going to say, and you know that they're going to implode. Don't let them get to you, man.

That's all.

BB

[Pauli]

Speaking of "The Boat", it's ready when all y'all want to get on.

[Garrett]

Thanks Pauli but that just exchanges one set of problems for another. I'm more interested in recovering the beliefs and practices of the early reformed.

[Andrew]

G: Whether your post is partially rhetorical or not, I do believe that Boneman makes a crucial point. Don't give up the fight. Force those who have hijacked the term "reformed" to abandon it.

Just because Joe Shmoe uses the term "awesome" to refer to his philly cheesesteak, doesn't mean that I'm going to claim that "awesome" is no longer an appropriate adjective for God.

It seems to me that whether you like it or not, you are no more post-reformed than Brian McLaren is post-modern.

A fellow Reformed Catholic,
Andrew

PS- if I'm in left field, please forgive my daftness.