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March 10, 2006


rick g.

don't you get it man? time stopped in 16th century!

i need a beer and good cigar.

wake up!

post reformed, i like that,
would make a nice Tee Shirt.


A beer and a good cigar would solve alot of these problems. We need to quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry...with a beer and a good cigar.

Brother Quotidian

Post-reformed? Interesting. I may use it myself. May I? Is it trademarked by any chance?

The term I have usually used instead is "barely Reformed," deployed in conscious antithesis to "truly Reformed."

I just now stumbled across this blog at what seems to be a key hinge in your pilgrimage. Ours are remotely similar (at first examination) -- departing a cramped, ingrown, and monomaniacal theological ghetto for "the wider church." I'm going to be interested to learn what you think that is.

Meanwhile, blessings on your trek. I am going to begin praying for you. We (e.g. the barely reformed, the post-reformed, the atavists of a catholic Western Christianity) need every one of you we can find.


Interesting Bro. We almost chose St. Athanasius as our church name but it seemed a little obscure for a self-conciously "community" oriented church in Los Angeles. Yes, I have been rounding a large bend for several years now. I can see just a bit down the next lane now. Thank you for the prayers.

Re: "Postreformed" has no trademark so please feel free to use it but just share any profits you generate.

Brother Quotidian

No one around here knows who St. Athanasius is, nor how to spell his name, nor even how to pronouce it. His name on our parish is emblematic of two things: (1) the outrageous ignorance of God's people in the remnants of an ostensibly Christian culture; imagine yellow-dog Democrats who have never heard of FDR and you get my drift And, (2) our conviction that the challenges facing us in this time of history are very similar to the ones Athanasius faced. He is for us an inspiration and source of moxey. God grant we may do as well as he did.

I also note you're a jarhead. Me too. A Hollywood Marine.




I went thru MCRD SD back in '85. You?

Brother Quotidian

"I went thru MCRD SD back in '85. You?"

MCRD SD in the fall of '68. Detained there for a month awaiting a courts-martial (not for moi; I was a witness). Then off to Pendleton, for ITR and Cooks and Bakers School. Oh, yes, I was one of the shifty-eyed enlisted swine.

If you're interested in how the United States Marine Corps eventually contributed to my becoming an Anglican priest, you can read all about it here:


It's an entry at a blog that turned out to be a bridge too far at the time I launched it. Perhaps I'll resurrect it later.

Later this evening, I'll offer some thoughts on the question you posed about St. Gregory's eclectic spirituality.

And,yes, Anglican chants are Exceedly Cool to the Max. I've gotten some men in the choir of a PCA congregation (their pastor is an old seminary bud) to using Anglican chants, and their choir director has designs on the whole congregation routinely chanting. They're even making their congregational prayers in collect form now! Maybe there's hope?



Interesting journey. where I'm headed liturgy doesn't give willies it just gets blank stares. But it is very, very counter-cultural.


As a potential parishoner in your Santa Clarita church, I'd like to ask you to flesh out what "post-reformed" means. I understand you intend it as a widening, not a narrowing, of definitions, but it's still ill-defined at this moment.


Hi Anonymous,

I see the Reformed movement as having its genus in the broader church up through the Reformation but crystallizing around the thought of John Calvin and his continental reformed contemporaries. I believe there was a generally productive trajectory through the continental Reformed churches (Dutch, German, Swiss, French) into the early 20th Century. The Anglo-American reformed churches always struggled with a Puritanism that threatened to take it over the rails.

Some examples of this “over the rails” is a disengaged spirituality that separated the church from beauty and tradition and disengaged the church from culture. I think this made, particularly the American Reformed churches, vulnerable to revivalistic tendencies that eventually turned them into baptistic churches in practice and appearance. The Reformation wasn’t about dumping everything “Roman Catholic” but carefully weighing out what was a good and biblical practice without over-reacting.

Now, how does this relate to your question? Well, American Reformedom, which has spun itself far from its moorings, has gotten itself into a reactionary cul-de-sac and is acting like a dying cornered wildcat. The continental (and even 16th-19th Anglo/ American Reformedom) always had allot of variety on a number of issues. I’m not talking about liberalism or heterodoxy either. It was a large, powerful and mature movement and force in culture. Different baptismal views were tolerated. Different speculations and formulations of pre-fall decrees were accepted. Somewhere along the way we have become intolerant, unable to listen and mean. We are (and perhaps already have) become irrelevant to the broader Christian church (worldwide and national) and certainly have become irrelevant in the culture itself.

Let me say that I affirm all the primary tenets that conservative Reformed folk fret about (justification by faith, imputation of the righteousness of Christ, etc., etc.) but I will not, however, condemn my brethren who want to recast these doctrines in different ways. I will listen to them carefully and weigh out what they are saying. We are suppposed to be about Reformed and always reforming. Reformedom is not able to handle such nuancing anymore. An example of this would be the intolerance that someone like John Frame faced at Westminster Seminary, CA. When Frame isn’t acceptable anymore the bells are tolling for the funeral.

Finally, I don’t want to spend my ministry and life being squandered on some sectarian identity. The Nicene Creed is a fine demarcation line for fellowship for me. As a “Post-Reformed” man I guess I would say that I want to invert what has become the identity markers for conservative American Reformed folk and that is “let’s define the circle of orthodoxy really small” which means our peculiar interpretation of the Westminster Confession of Faith. That’s fine for officers in your local body but beyond that I want make as many allies as possible. So I will wrap up this rather long response by saying that Satan is our enemy not our Christian brethren. Hope that helps.

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